In case you were wondering the meeting with the preacher went terribly...I should have listened to you all and stayed away. He went on about how what I've done is a mortal sin and what about all the babies that die in the ivf process and how he was going to cry about it when I left. I almost laughed when he said that. He said that I was in spiritual danger and I should repent for my sin and that you can't cling to the cross if you're clinging to "being right" and I should have some humility. He said he wished I'd come to him for "counsel" before making this choice.
He said I'd chosen to bring a baby into a situation that no child would choose. What the fuck does he know about MY situation. He's been at our church 5 years but we've hardly exchanged more than a few words here and there. He's doesn't know the first damn thing about my situation and didn't make an effort to find out before slamming the judgement down. I told him he didn't know what my child would choose.
At the end he was silent for a very long time, like well over a minute. Then he said he'd email me some crap about what the church body has to say about it and I could read it if I wanted. He didn't even offer to pray with me.
I didn't cry although I'm struggling not to right now. I told him no amount of "counsel" would have changed my mind and that I didn't believe I had done anything wrong. While he thinks I'm in danger, I've never felt closer to God. I said I'd prayed alot on the journey and that I'd never experienced anything like it but that a force larger than myself was always with me propelling me forward. God was with me every step of the way. Also, that he was talking about choices already made and that I was sorry I'd met with him. That I didn't want to go there but my dad had said his job was to bring me closer to God but hearing what he had to say I was on the verge of looking for a new church home.
I feel like I could kill anyone who thinks my baby is a sin.
Oh my goodness Paige, I am so sorry that you had to endure that. It sounds painful. I hope you are able to find a church home that is a good fit for you and your family.
ReplyDeleteOh what a misled holier than thou piece of s&^%!!! While I was uncomfortable with the meeting.... I had no idea what a closed minded, small town, out of touch "preacher" this was... How on earth could he say such things... the church is there to be supportive and help us through our journey... not to judge! No wonder so many people have distanced themselves from the church... because of irresponsible, ill-appointed "leaders" like this p&^%#. I'm so sorry. It's a shame... but you need to find a new church home!
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is FUCK. I was SO afraid that this was what he had in mind, but kicked myself for being presumptuous. HE IS COMPLETELY WRONG PAIGE. I hate that he has planted bad feelings in your head. Be strong and purge them out of there. This baby has made you so happy! Go back and read your posts from soon after you get the BFP. That kind of happiness only comes from good things. You are giving life to a little kid who would have just been one of the zillions of lost sperm and egg cells otherwise. And you are going to be a wonderful mother. Don't listen to that fucking jerk. Pardon my bad language, but he totally deserves it. What an ass.
ReplyDeleteOh Paige, that is so incredibly wrong on so many levels. I cannot even beging to imagine what your feeling right now. I dont know how he felt that anything he said or did tonight was Christ like.
ReplyDeleteI dont have to tell you this, but just in case you need to hear it, you have done nothing wrong, your baby will have an amazing life and your going to be a terrific mom. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.
Please, please, please tell me you will never step foot in a church led by this asshole again. He will mark you and your baby for persecution every chance he gets. I hope your parents will back you up and leave this farce of a church right along with you. This is their grandchild this asshole is calling a sin.
ReplyDeleteDamn, I'm almost as mad for you as I was when my own small minded preacher darkened my door with similar nonsense.
What a piece of shit! He is definitely not displaying a Christlike attitude. Sweet Pea is a miracle and nothing less!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry that you had to listen to such ill-mannered, spiteful garbage. I hope that you can find a church home that you love and accept you and Sweet Pea just as you are.
Oh my gosh. I am so sorry you had to sit through that. What a horrible experience! :( I'm glad you stuck to your guns. You know you're going to be an amazing mother and I'm glad you didn't let him get you down about that. This is your life and your decision and this is going to be one lucky baby. I want to kick the dude in the balls.
ReplyDeleteI second what everyone else said, especially In Between. I am so sorry you had to go through that mean, misguided, self-righteous BS. Oh and if it helps - sometime it helps me to either vent out loud for a set amount of time or write in my journal to them (like you are writing a letter you don't send) and really let him have it! then do something nice for yourself. Sending caring thoughts.
ReplyDeleteHe is not God. He is speaking on his own righteousness, his own (lack of) understanding, not speaking for God. He can go home and cry his little heart out while you can continue to keep your head up and hold to the faith that you have, that faith you feel led you (and I and many others) to your decisions.
ReplyDeleteI don't know of any child who wouldn't choose to be loved, desired, and prepared for. Prayed for, thought of, adored before they were ever there. That is what your child has coming to them. Not whatever it is he thinks.
He definitely makes me sad for him and all the preachers who share that same mentality. I have a feeling my former pastor would try to say the same, I'm sure. In the end, its just not up to them, has nothing to do with them.
Your last paragraph made me cheer though, Paige. No baby is a sin whatsoever and you are so awesome to have told him all that. I would definitely find another church home cause this one isn't on par with you and your awesome little family.
I'm sorry to hear that a small-minded man could cause you any hurt or could condemn your unborn child. There is nothing righteous or compassionate in such cruel tirade. There was nothing Christian or Christ-like in his words or his attitude. Your struggle to have a child against heartbreak after heartbreak and your love for the child you carry is infinitely more beautiful and faithful to the teachings of Christ than the bigoted man who only tried to put fear and shame into your heart.
ReplyDeleteYour child is fortunate to have such a strong spirit for a mother.
What a complete fuckwad of a "preacher" he is. What was he trying to accomplish by this complete drivel exactly? It makes me soooooo mad. Let me just say my IVF child is a complete gift from God. Simple. And anyone who says otherwise is the one in "spiritual danger".
ReplyDeleteI'd be of a mind to make everything he said public - maybe you could get rid of him and get a real pastor at your church. He should leave. Not you.
Arghhh.... And if anyone should be exercising any humility in this situation it's him. When he comes begging for forgiveness for his self-righteous, hateful, ignorant crap.
He is not a man of God. He's not even close.
I'm sorry that happened to you. You are going to be a brilliant mother to a lovely, beautiful baby. You are very blessed. And so is your baby.
What a douchebag!! I can't believe it. Wow. He lived right up to the worst possible expectation.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry you had to go through that. Allow yourself to cry if you need to - he said some hurtful things and you clearly weren't expecting that from him.
As another blogger said, he is not G-d. It's my personal belief that no one person is inherently closer to G-d than any other. I believe that if you feel G-d has been guiding you on this journey, then He has. I think if you didn't have G-d's grace with you then you wouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place!
Please know that we are here for you and love you, even if some man you barely know isn't. Find another church if need be, but don't let this one man (and he's just that - a human man) keep you from where you feel like you belong.
Stay strong, Paige, we're all routing for you.
What an ass. I'm sorry you had to experience such ignorance.
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of churches out there that follow the true spirit of Jesus Christ and you would be lovingly welcomed into any one of them.
Regardless, though, NO church is better than a church run by a man like that.
As you say, God is with you and loves you and your baby. And you are going to be an amazing mom.
Love,
Maddy
Thank goodness you didn't fall prey to his weird and sick theology. Hearing about this type of experience makes me glad I live in the Bay Area. Seriously, Paige, you are not the one making a mistake. His judgement of you, his presumption of your life's path and your choice are all evil and wrong. What a sick bastard. Walk, no run, to find another means of support. Makes me sick to my stomach to think you had to go through this.
ReplyDeleteI am so, so, so sorry Paige!! This guy is clueless and a product of the patriarchy...his arguments don't have two feet to stand on.
ReplyDeleteI was so happy to read that you have felt close to God during this long process. And the love you have for your baby will give you insight into God's love for you.
As painful as that confrontation was, the timing is perhaps a blessing. This cretin does not deserve to baptize your baby. Is there a way you could start looking into churches that are more loving and theologically faithful?
Sending you love!
Nothing quite like subsituting one's own judgements and calling them "god's"
ReplyDeleteBastard.
I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't have said any of that.
time to find a more open minded, and less asshole led, church.
I'm so sorry you endured that.
First of all I am so sorry you had to deal with this. But... You handled it PERFECTLY!! Without getting argumentative, you stood up for yourself, your choice and your baby. That shows how great of a mother you are.
ReplyDeleteHow awful! Absolutely awful! That is not the type of attitude you need to deal with during the most happiest time of your life. For him to lay all this judgement on you then to not even offer to pray with you? Unacceptable! And to lay the guilt on you about babies dying? Completely unacceptable! He is the one that is misguided. He is in the wrong here & he will have to repent for the sins he commited against you in that meeting because the God I believe in would not want someone like that preacher speaking on His behalf!
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry you had to endure this meeting.
Oh Paige. Oh Paige.
ReplyDeleteWhat a fool. What a fool.
I am shaking I am so mad.
I have so many thoughts racing through my head. I am so very sorry you were exposed to such extreme narrow minded, judgmental stupidity cloaked as faith.
Religion makes man into an even more stupid beast.
I send you all my love. You take care of that baby and yourself my dear.
Paige, I am sorry that you have to listen to this jerk.. He is narrow-minded and has no right to judge you or anyone. Stay away from him. You did nothing wrong. Take care of yourself and stay strong.
ReplyDeleteEveryone else has pretty much said what I'd say, but I have to tell you what my sister said when I told her about your experience, "If anyone ever says anything like that in front of me, they'd better watch out, because I'm taking them down." My sister, the street fighter.
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry you had to have such a horrible experience with a supposed "man of God." It sounds like he needs to re-read the Bible, and refresh his memory on what Jesus actually did and what he taught. Jerk.
Oh behalf of all preachers (since I am one, but hopefully nothing like this guy), I apologize for the terrible experience you had. I'm so sorry. He had no right to dump all that on you. I've always felt that conceiving a child through IVF (which we did too) is a sign of the very deepest love a couple can have for one another - exactly the opposite of what he said. I hope you can brush off his hateful comments as those of someone who is uninformed and WAY too quick to judge others. Peace to you.
ReplyDeleteOops - I hit 'publish' before I finished my edit - I wanted to say that conceiving a child as a single parent is equally a sign of your deep love for your child, and of God's love for you - again, completely the opposite of what your preacher claimed. If that's a 'sin,' then I don't know what isn't, frankly. I hope you find a church that is supportive of you and your wonderful child. Blessings to you.
ReplyDeleteSince when do baby choose anything? Just asking...
ReplyDeleteStay strong and stay positive! What you have is a blessing, not a sin.
Here from LFCA, and just wanted to offer my support. I am so angry and hurt on your behalf! I'm sorry that you had to go through that crap. You've got some wise readers here who have given you lots of good insight. I instantly thought of Baby, Interrupted as I was reading this, and I'm glad to see that she commented!
ReplyDeleteYour baby is a blessing and will grow up knowing how much you longed for her/him and how love-filled your decisions have been. Congratuations on this pregnancy! Much luck to you and your bean!
Here from LFCA -
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry you are going through this. How horrible that this man would speak to you this way, knowing you are already carrying a life inside you. Your child will be born knowing s/he is badly wanted and much loved, and that's a situation ANY child would choose, if they could.
Dearest Paige - here from lfca
ReplyDeleteMy heart goes out to you...
That man is not connected to God.
The way you write, it looks like you are..
You are ok.
Remember that a baby conceived through IVF is extra special because it really is wanted. And that's the most important thing.
lots of love and best wishes
Heather
Here from LCFA, and I can't say anything the others haven't said except this: Your dad sounds like good people. Also, I am impressed with your patience and willingness to meet with the man without knocking his block off and the reasonable way you are handling it.
ReplyDeleteI'm a lesbian who had a baby through ART, and when I was shopping for daycare providers and asked one if my orientation was a problem for her, she said that she practiced "love the sinner, not the sin," which told me then and there that hers was not a good environment for my daughter. I suspect this man's influence wouldn't be the best for your baby either. I am sorry that you're being pushed out of your spiritual home though. May you find another more accepting one.
Seems to be a very non christian attitude since Jesus wasn't conceived in the "normal" way. If anything he was the first IVF baby and he was raised by a non-biological father. Sorry it went so badly. I'm having trouble finding a church community because of the kind of attitude your preacher has.
ReplyDeleteHere from LFCA...
ReplyDeleteIt seems like many churches have similar attitudes. It's very unfortunate, because churches are supposed to be there to support communities. I'm sorry you had to experience this.
I think, in general, we are all honest enough with ourselves to know whether we feel that God approves of our actions. Conscience and guilt make that happen. Not annoying preachers.
Here from LFCA. How can a man who loves God not love life? Deep breath ... I hope that you find a spiritual home that understands the decisions you've made, and supports you in this miracle.
ReplyDelete"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well."
ReplyDeletePsalm 139:13-14
The little spirit growing inside of you is a perfect and beautiful creation of God. Tell that to this man who calls himself a preacher.
And for heaven's sake, find another church.
Love to you, my dear. I deeply respect and admire you for choosing this path. Yours a story similar to my own. It won't always be easy, but it will definitely be worth it! Bonus: you get more giggles and drooly baby kisses than you had ever hoped to expect!
Ugg. What an ass. I'm sorry you had to deal with all of that. This is the side of religion or church that I hate. The judgemental attitude that some feel entitled to wield against others. Hugs to you.
ReplyDeletePaige - I am so sorry that you had to talk with someone who is so misled. I completely agree with you about feeling closer to God through this path. I used to be so bitter that I would yell at God and was so angry that I did not have the family I wanted. Now I feel happy and so does my family. I know your family is happy too. This "preacher" does really not understand what sin is. Sin is the act of seperating yourself from God. You have not done that at all. You might want to consider switching churches for one that is loving and understanding. One that actually embodies the Christian faith.
ReplyDeleteAs you said - OMG!
ReplyDeleteYour baby, like any other baby on planet Earth, is the purest thing! And your baby, unlike some other misfortune babies, was made with love, and a lot of it! I can't believe a man who is head of a community, who is there to lead his heard can be so narrow minded.
I am so sorry. I do hope you find a new place of worship.
Found you through LFCA. I support you and I'm sorry that such hateful words were spoken in the guise of faith. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty for your choices. We do what we can with the cards we are dealt. I'm sure you will be a wonderful mother. : )
ReplyDelete